Daemons of Chaos Advance Order

Sweet models, finally I answered my question for my Warriors of Chaos Warshrine and also the dilemma of the broken flight stands of my Screamers.

Holistic Mumbo: Respecting each other's options

These days I tend to see that when people are facing off against the latest hype in netlists on the internet, they will just give up and say cheese to that netlist. Either that or I hear the bitching and the yapping about how the other guy is a OP son of a bitch while being a scrub themselves. And then....there is the other opposite of the pendulum; players who just netlists all the time without understanding the philosophy behind the lists and the disadvantage of taking such a netlist.

Whenever I see some obnoxious guy who believes that his netlist list is the best thing every created since himself or bacon and deploy and uses his forces in a way that belies his hubris and then loses to a guy who is using some list that is not considered as a norm in the internetz, the obnoxious guy will wonder what went wrong and have lots of swearing, etc etc. What is truly going on here?

Depending on the skills and the tool set of the players, I tend to use a term that is commonly used in the fighting game community when it comes to these kinds of situations; Respecting the options that a player has.

In the fighting game term, respect is basically the acknowledgement of your opponent's skill and tool set that they could punish you with those skills or tools. On the other hand, disrespect is to not acknowledging their skills and tools as a result of you having the perceived advantage of being a better player or just being in their head and believing that you will not be punished (or punished lightly) for it.

Note: This is not to be confused with playing for fun, as you can never play overly competitive all the time but even then you should not intentionally throw the game down by making truly horrible choices that runs contrary to your playstyle or cripples your options in the game.

With the terms out, what does it all mean to all of us?

Let's say if you are in the game for a long time, and know the armies inside out and the tactics and stuff. It might look as if by the virtue of their seniority and experience that they will outclass any unskilled opponent that they face. But this in itself is a very dangerous thought to have for there is always someone better and also the fact that the skills from being in the game and playing are at best an advantage. There are other factors that dictate the successes of your actions on the table. Some players are more vicious than others, while some are more fluid than others and so on and so forth. These traits are what separate the more docile players than the more dangerous ones. The quality is indeed a hard one to pin down, but it is a real danger on the table to face against. You are restricted to some level of abstractation and the true tenacity that a determined and vicious opponent express is not easily conveyed for a truly tenacious opponent will not give in to all but the worst setbacks where victory at all costs is the order of the battle.

For this kind of battles, you will also need to be tenacious but it should not be the primary focus of the player as fighting fire with fire will only burn everyone up. A Pyrrhic victory is the worst kind of victory in my opinion, and generally it is considered as such in a true military sense. 

The thing about combat in general is that any fight always begins before it really starts and both sides will have to analyse the strengths and weaknesses of the opposing party and conclude that they are not completely outclassed. Of course sometimes you will have to fight battles that sees to it that you are outclassed in most things and thus you will have to use every trick in the book (and outside the book) to get to the conclusion that you want. If you find a weakness in the opponent, take it. But sometimes this can also mean to find their strength and take it to the ground.

A particular example of this duality of taking down your opponent is to imagine that your opponent has that hammer unit while his other units are way weaker. Do you take out the weaker units? Or do you take out the stronger hammer? The situation would dictate which unit should be slaughtered, and you can see it crumble very quickly. There are also situations where some armies may look strong on the table (IG blobs, Dark Eldar Mech), but once you puncture and crack that armour they will crumble.

The next thing to consider is that one should always engage with a calculated intensity, where you use, for wanting of a better word, a cool rage against your opponent. Strong emotions can be tempered to power ourselves up without succumbing to the emotional numbness that interferes with our rational thoughts. Thus in any battle, the discipline of the mind is the most important thing to consider when facing off against an equal or someone more powerful than you are. If you are seeing a wave of Orks or Imperial guardsmen bunkering down, never give in to the despair. That will only numb you. A good player will always have this mindset in play whenever he plays anyone.

Another thing to consider is to know what you are truly capable of. It is always good to know that you have the series of techniques to kick some ass, from the bag of tricks to the repertoire of your list and this will always help you in any situation. Indeed the use of knowledge with focus and discipline will always be the true source of any player's power.  Keep in mind however; simply being aware of a technique is not the same as being part of the arsenal.

As Bruce Lee once said, " I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times" and what this means that despite knowing that some players will only have a small plethora of tactics in any situation, but if the player is really good or have considerable proficiency in those small plethora of tactics he is still a big threat. In any situation if it is simple and can be executed all the time as compared to a smexy complicated thing that is executed poorly, the former will always beat the latter.

How does this translate in general?

Let’s take one of the games I have played in 6 th edition and put this ideal to the test.

In this particular game, I have taken my 1500 pts Dark Eldar army and my opponent has opted for a biker-based army with some considerable firepower.The mission is Capture and Control (1 objective each(and honestly I do not remember the new name for this mission)) with the Vanguard Strike deployment zone.

My Dark Eldar list consist of

1 Archon

1 Haemonculus

1 squad of trueborn in Venom

8 Wyches in Raider

2 squads of 5 warriors in Venom

1 squad of 5 warriors in Raider

2 Ravagers

1 Razorwing

My opponent's list consist of

Biker Captain

Techmarine

2 squad of Bikers

2 Squads of Scouts

1 Land Speeder

2 Predators

Both of us are comfortable with our own lists, and both of us have the mobility to do hit-and-run stuff against each other. His advantage is that he is able to have a greater number of resilient scoring and contesting units than I do, while I have the edge in firepower. In this regard, we are both equally matched.

But what separates us from here on out is how we approach the game and our expectations. In this game, he underestimated the capabilities of my units and thus moved a number of his units out to try and catch my forces with his speed in the open and then rush towards my objective. In return , he lost fully half of his bike forces to my units while my other forces went on to prevent them from entering into my deployment zone for that 'disrespect'. 

As for me, I have underestimated how his little scoring scouts went on to take the objective without any resistance as I am dealing with his bikers. Combined with their camo-cloaks they are almost impossible to remove, and thus forced me to return back to my own objective to take the objective with a squad of 5 Kabalites in a Mysterious forest that almost wiped them out. In the end, the only thing that prevented me from losing is the First Blood secondary objective that I have achieved earlier on in the game. In this aspect. I have 'disrespected' his scouts by assuming that they are a minor threat but during that final turn, it bit me enough. 

In this game, we both have underestimated the elements in the list that could be used against us; my firepower against his bikers and his almost invulnerable scouts sitting on the objective through my firepower. In fact if it was not for the charge of the wyches against that biker squad on the far fight, and he would have just boosted into my deployment zone just took away my only advantage just like that.

In conclusion, the message is quite simple and clear: never underestimate, never overestimate, and never give up.

Faeit 212's Chaos Marine QnA Event Compilation

Well here to spread the good word around about the voices of Chaos. From the looks of it, I will still be using my Death Guard the way I like it and more. :P

From Faeit 212

Here is the latest and greatest on the QnA, organized and hopefully easy to read. I am tired, and hopefully got all the information down. 

Please thank our special guest for taking several hours out of his evening to answer our questions, I know he got to as much as he could. Also great job guys, everyone was at their best, and that is what makes an event like this work. I hope to get things like this in the future. This one was as much of a surprise to me as it was to you.

Chaos Space Marine Codex
As of July 25th, CSM book is set to release in September along with the starter (though not the same week). 


General
Having not had an extensive amount of time with the rules, from what I have read so far, there seems to be a theme of if you want it, you can have it, but you have to pay.

Basic CSM squads actually end up cheaper than a tactical squad if they take only 2 special weapons and their aspiring champion has bp/ccw.

It's possible, however, to clear 400 points on a 10 man squad with a transport.

There does seem to be a ton of possible army lists that can be built out of it though, and that's really exciting, but at the end of the day they're just marines and nothing has jumped off the page as 'wtf...OP' (yet)


There are no CSM squads that can combat squad.


Does the codex promote a mixed army, or mono god armies?

You can get away with a mono-god list, but at that point you should be using cult troops most likely.

If you're adding havocs to your berzerker army, there's no real point in giving the havocs the mark of khorne for instance. In that sense you're varied.

It's not like 3.5 where we'll see thousand son troops with nurgle vehicles to min-max.

Undivided armies are a lot cheaper than cult marines. A lot. Playing undivided gives you many more bodies.

Marks
The only impact on Marks is that HQ models make corresponding cult units Troops.

You can mix/match Marks and Icons.

+1T/FnP isn't as good as a Plague Marine, they're worth their points.

HQ unlocks corresponding cult troop.

Marks are the same.

-Undivided still reroll morale tests?

-Khorne still Rage
-Tzeentch still +1 invuln save
-Nurgle still +1T
-Slaanesh still +1I 

Marks are the same, except Khorne which is Rage, not +1 attack and has a point decrease.

Undivided Lords get Inspiring Presence command trait, and improved reserve manipulation.

Dedicated transports get the mark of the unit they're bought for, for free. Only units with the same mark can ride in it, (so be careful).

Undivided vehicles can transport anyone.

Other vehicles may buy them. An example would be the mark of khorne on a predator, which gives it a dozer blade at no additional cost, and allows it to roll d6 wounds on a unit it tank shocks 

Yes icons prevent scatter


Marks are bought per squad

CSM/Havocs/Raptors/Chosen pay the same cost. Termies pay more.


Psychic Powers

There are 2 debuff spells in Nurgle and Slaanesh, 2 buff spells in Slaanesh.

Psychic powers are rolled, not bought specifically

Eye of Gods 

The "eye of the Gods" table is actually several tables. First you roll to see what table you roll on, then you roll what you get after winning a challenge, killing a monstrous creature or walker, or annihilating a unit in close combat.

One of the tables is Daemonic Gifts.

The chart is 6 charts of 6 options.


Units (General)

CSM and Cultists are Troops


Cult units become troops with the right mark on your warlord.

No bonuses for Sacred numbers

No one comes with icons by default, cult troops get marks by default.


Khorne

Skull Champions can take collars that give the squad and any vehicle it's embarked in a 5+ DtW

Kharne strikes at initiative 5, and he gained armour bane which I guess is new. He's AP3, but for every model he kills (not wound inflicted) he makes an additional attack at initiative 1.

Not quite the same as warrior born as it doesn't keep growing, but it's very devastating for someone with 8 attacks on the charge. 

Kharne has a 2+ Deny the witch

Kharne still hits friendly models.

khorne berserkers are AP 5

Berzerkers are 105+21/berzerker

berzerkers are 2 attacks, rage, furious charge, frag and krak grenades, bolt pistol / khornate weapon (ap5 in close combat).

They're 5 attacks at str5 ap5 each on the charge.
They can also upgrade to have chainfists in the form of 2 handed chain-axes.

5-20 in size.

Noise Marines

Noise marines are overall a little bit cheaper. Sonic Blasters are 36" salvo now. Aspiring champions have access to a whip that prevents enemies from denying challenges. Other weapons are the same

Plague Marines

They are 120 for 5, + 24 for more.


Poisoned only in melee. Can throw their blight grenades to reduce enemy movement speed to 2d6 pick the highest, or if already rolling d6 for whatever reason (i.e. cover, charging) pick the lowest.

Plague marines are now poison in CC. Can throw blight grenades

Thousand Sons

Thousand Sons come with an Aspiring Sorcerer in their basic 5 before adding more Rubric marines.

150 points for 4 Rubric marines and 1 Aspiring Sorcerer, He gets a roll included..

Unit size 4-19. 20 points per Rubric. Still slow and purposeful, unless the sorcerer is alive then relentless.

Rubric marines are 1W, 4++

Thousand Son squads are rank 1

HQ sorcerer are rank 1, can be upgraded to 2.

Mark of Tzeench on an HQ is +1 (so you can upgrade all the way to rank 3)

There is a piece of wargear that lets you reroll up to your mastery in dice after you have rolled, but only each dice once.


Ahriman is mastery 4, can cast multiple powers per turn, gets access to almost all lores and has a default psychic attack much like smite but longer range that he can use in addition to his normal psychic powers per turn.


Characters

Most named characters are the same, but overall a point reduction. Abbadon is the same points and does not make terminators troops.

There are no new named characters.


I haven't read any special character adjusting the allies chart.

Abadon is AP2, Daemon Weapons are AP3

Daemon Prince

Kicks ass and takes names, but otherwise no army wide bonus's are granted
Daemon princes are jump if they have wings.

Chaos Space Marine

70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.

Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.

Come with bolter/bp/ccw

For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.

Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

Cultists

Cultists are 4 points each and come in squads of 10-30. They can have any combination of autoguns (str3 ap-) or auto pistol ccw (str 3 ap-)

They can take special weapons, but not heavy weapons.

they respond very well to dark apostles getting an extra benefit when one is in their unit.

Zombie cultists aren't scoring and cannot be joined by Characters (even with the mark of nurgle)

No traitor guard. Just cultists.

cultists cannot platoon, but you can take up to 30 of them in the first place.

Terminators
Will Terminators be able to be given both marks and icons to essentially be cult terminators?

Yes, but it's expensive. Taking both increases the cost of the second and Terminators pay more in the first place.

Terminators pay 50% more for marks. Taking an icon if you already have a mark costs an extra 20 points


Possessed

Possessed get to buy (not roll) up to 3 boons from the  Eye of Gods table.


Maulers (Elites)

str5/t5, 2+/5++, Once per turn can combination of 2:
power weapon, power fist, lightning claw

Each mauler chooses individually.

1-3. Maulers cannot deep strike, but are not slow and purposeful.


Dark Apostles

Yes daemons can be summoned to your CSM icons if you have a dark apostle.

War Smiths

war smiths who can restore hull points


Chaos Dragon (Fast Attack)

The only flyer in the codex
Dragon Takes out other flyers with a ranged attack
its 12/11/10    170pts
Fast Attack

the flyer you get is retardedly good at blowing up things that are zooming.

Bikes
Bikes get nothing new, just CSM on bikes with combi-bolters instead of bolters.

Raptors

Raptors still have access to special weapons, only the aspiring champion can take special melee weapons. They are reduced in points.

The Night Lord's raptors are a lot like vanguard (they cannot charge on deep strike though), but they have 2 attacks base + dual power weapons (ap3) with the shred special rule and are 35 points each.

Dreadnoughts

They can take marks

The mark of khorne for instance gives it Rage and a unique weapon option much-like blood talons except it's a giant rotary saw.

Obliterators (heavy Support)

Predators

No new turret options for predators.

New Siege Engine (heavy support)

The siege engine has a melta blast template.

Defilers

They're the same except they have the Daemon special rule, 4 hull points and a 5+ invulnerable save.

Havocs

Havocs, CSM and chosen squads can take autocannons


Vindicator

Daemonicly possessed vindicators I think will be in every list, with their ability to potentially regenerate destroyed weapons at start of the chaos player's turn 

Vehicles

There is a sound-based vehicle upgrade but it's more of a Word Bearers item than Slaanesh.


There is a sonic upgrade for tanks, but it's not a noise-marine thing.

no chaos razorbacks, just combi-weapons

No drop pods 

There is a new land raider, it's a lot like a crusader.
12 capacity for the basic, 16 capacity for the new one.

New Land Raider can ram fortifications and you can launch an assault on the occupants, except that you don't consolidate at the end, you remain locked in combat.
If the enemy unit flees they immediately exit the terrain. If the door is blocked (by your land raider for instance), they count as having been caught ala Sweeping Advance

Fortifications

There are no new fortifications but there is a unique upgrade to fortifications.


Misc.

 don't know about upgrades being finecast. I know that there is intent to upgrade the basic CSM box to support all the cult troops to be able to achieve any of the weapon combinations from the entries (including everyone having soundblasters).

Daemon Weapons are AP3 and pretty different now, you still wrestle with them. I think its a matter of preference.

The "Hatred: Space Marines" rule....is it ALL Space Marines (Chaos and Loyalist), just Loyalist, or just Vanilla?

Just imperial loyalist.

Is it me or.......

I noticed this a few days ago. Cut the top-knot off of the helmetless Chaos Space Marine head and putty a strip of leather on his head and.....

Voila!

I wonder who would like to take on the challenge of modelling Bane as a Alpha Legionnaire.

Daemons of Chaos leaked White Dwarf video

Honestly I got no idea what is he saying, but still the pics from the new White Dwarf made me very excited. Now my Tzeentch Daemons will have some stuff to be expanded on once I am able to go back and expand upon it and my Death Guard will be able to have some new friends to play in the playground.

It is interesting to know that the way they go about updating the Fantasy side of Daemons.....will this be replicated in 40k?

A disturbance in the Warp

'Nuff Said.

Space Marines idea - Barracudas

Throughout my entire 40k gaming life, I never really played as the good o' Marines unless you count Death Guard as Marines (which in my books they are not as they are super evil ones). The reason why I did not venture into the territory of playing Marine armies is because of one simple fact; I tend to not like the usual space marine play as it can get unusually boring in a sense. The only exception to the rule is a full biker army with teleporting terminators to complement them a.k.a Dark Angels style.

But if I ever want to start a Marine army, I always love to try out a particular idea that I have always held dear in my heart; The Barracudas.

The chapter symbol that I wanted to use is this symbol which I actually will admittedly will say I will rip out from Arlong's Pirates symbol from the manga 'One Piece'. The symbol is cool, and there's no need to improve on something if it is not broken. Now I know that it is more of a swordfish than anything, but the name 'Swordfish' does not scream Space Marines at all and the name Barracudas sounds more kickass (And the latin name for swordfish does not sound any more convincing;  Xiphias gladius  which just means sword (for both the former and the latter parts of the scientific name)).

The way I always imagined this chapter to be is that of a fleet-based chapter, but instead of the usual Black Templars-style fleet chapters (which I later found out to be the Crusade-pattern fleet chapters), I instead opted for a more nomadic style fleet chapter that scavenges its stuff. Surprisingly the Imperial Armour 10: Badab War 2 actually has a chapter with the exact style that I always envisioned my chapter to be called the Carcharadon Astra a.k.a Space Sharks. But of course I thought of the idea around 2007-2008 which is way before the books ever came out. But rant aside, my chapter will be a Nomad-Predator pattern fleet chapter.

Gameplay-wise, I think the Dark Angels Ravenwing/Deathwing playstyle would suit the army as it would fit with the style that I am fond of and also the fluffy stuff of them being a nomad-predator pattern  fleet chapter. Besides they could also keep the hunting style of their namesake to boot as well. Besides, after playing with a number of vehicle-based armies the vehicles will get to you somehow.

The colour scheme of the chapter will be a combination of black and orange for a very visually pleasing army while also making it simple for painting. Black is always cool, and orange is a cool colour than people rarely use en-mass but of course a muted orange is much more stylish than a bright orange scheme. The picture below is how I would paint my beakies; . 

The ideas are nice and all, but still the main question for me is this; what will it take for me to plunge into the Marine side of things? I think too much like a Xenos whenever I play my games and frankly the Xenos and Chaos side of things always interest me more than the Imperium forces.

A question for the soul indeed......